Baseball Toaster: The Griddle : Whose records are they?

Rank	Team	W	L	PCT	Division
1	Chicago Cubs	82	50	.621	C1
2	Philadelphia	73	59	.553	E1
3	Arizona	68	64	.515	W1
4	Milwaukee	77	55	.583	C2
5T	St. Louis	73	60	.549	C3
5T	New York Mets	73	60	.549	E2
7	Florida	67	65	.508	E3
8	Houston	66	66	.5	C4
9	Los Angeles Dodgers	65	67	.492	W2
10	Colorado	62	71	.466	W3
11	San Francisco	58	73	.443	W4
12T	Cincinnati	58	74	.439	C5
12T	Atlanta	58	74	.439	E4
14	Pittsburgh	57	75	.432	C6
15	San Diego	50	82	.379	W5
16	Washington	47	85	.356	E5

American League

Rank	Team	W	L	PCT	Division
1	Los Angeles Angels	80	51	.611	W1
2	Tampa Bay	79	51	.608	E1
3	Chicago White Sox	76	56	.576	C1
4	Boston	76	55	.58	E2
5	Minnesota	74	58	.561	C2
6	New York Yankees	70	61	.534	E3
7	Toronto	68	63	.519	E4
8T	Texas	65	68	.489	W2
8T	Cleveland	64	67	.489	C3
10	Detroit	64	68	.485	C4
11	Baltimore	62	70	.47	E5
12	Oakland	60	72	.455	W3
13	Kansas City	56	76	.424	C5
14	Seattle	50	82	.379	W4

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Whose records are they?

2006-08-31 08:50

by Bob Timmermann

Alfonso Soriano of the Nationals has 43 home runs this season. If he gets to 45, he may or may not break a Nationals franchise record of 44 set by Vladimir Guerrero in Montreal in 2000.

Why?

Well, according to Barry Svrluga of the Washington Post, there is debate on just what a "Washington" record is. Some people argue that the Washington team records should include the Senators. ALL of the Senators teams. That would push the record up to 48, set by Frank Howard with Washington AL 2.0.

The article points out that the Texas Rangers (formerly Washington AL 2.0), doesn't include any marks set in Washington. However, the Minnesota Twins (formerly Washington AL 1.0) do.

The Baltimore Orioles pretend that the St. Louis Browns never existed. But what would you expect from the Orioles, baseball's most irrelevant franchise? They don't know that there have been far worse pitchers in their team's history than Russ Ortiz.

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Comments

2006-08-31 09:28:08

1. Cliff Corcoran

If you ask me, if the players carry over, the records (and retired numbers) should as well. So, Twins records should include original Senators records, and Rangers records should include expansion Senators records, but original Senators and expansion Senators records should never be mixed, and Expos and Nats records should be continuous, but separate from all Senators records.

C'mon, MLB, this isn't that hard. If they were the Washington Expos we wouldn't be having this debate, changing a team nickname is no reason to erase history.

2006-08-31 09:35:09

2. the OZ

Are you sure the Padres aren't more irrelevant than the Orioles? I mean, geez, they retired Steve Garvey's number!

2006-08-31 09:37:32

3. Bob Timmermann

From the article, it appears that MLB doesn't care. It's the decision of the team.

And I think the Orioles are less relevant now than the Padres. The Padres have a good shot at making the playoffs.

2006-08-31 09:53:05

4. Peter

Vlad Guerrero never played for the Nationals, just as Walter Johnson never pitched for the Twins.
The way I see it, if a team takes on a new name when it moves, it's just like starting over as a different team. The Yankees, for example, waited until 2003 to celebrate their centennial, rather than acknowledge the 1901-02 Baltimore Orioles.

2006-08-31 10:09:34

5. Bob Timmermann

If the 1901 or 1902 Orioles had been any good, the Yankees would count their records.

The Twins count the Washington records so they can have Walter Johnson attached to them.

The Sporting News record book starts every franchise over with a new set of records once it moves.

2006-08-31 11:07:59

6. das411

But then how many homers did Willie Mays hit as a Giant Bob?

2006-08-31 12:25:48

7. nickb

I never realized Mays was a Giant Bob. ;)

2006-08-31 12:35:16

8. Bob Timmermann

Mays did not lead either the SF or NY Giants in career home runs.

I believe Ott is the NY leader and Bonds is the SF leader.

2006-08-31 13:53:08

9. Bob Timmermann

I count 551 home runs for Bonds as a SF Giant. Mays had 494 and McCovey had 491.

2006-08-31 15:49:11

10. Jacob L

The way I see it, the Naxpos can choose to ignore their franchise history if they want to, by virtue of the relocation and name change. They cannot, however, co-opt the history of 2 other franchises merely by playing in the same city and wearing similar hats. I'm going to be a hard liner on this and state that the Cleveland Browns record books starts in 2000 or whenever it was. A franchise is a franchise is a franchise.

2006-08-31 15:53:26

11. Bob Timmermann

So how many league championships have the Dodgers and Cardinals won?

Some say the Dodgers have won 22 and the Cardinals have won 20.

However, neither team counts its championships in the American Association. So the Dodgers officially claim 21 and the Cardinals claim 16.

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