ALDS Game 4 Open Thread: Rays vs White Sox, 2:07 pm PT
2008-10-06 13:30
by Bob Timmermann
Held over for at least one more day! It's the ALDS between Tampa Bay and Chicago. The Rays have a 2-1 lead, but still have one more game to play in "blackout" conditions at US Cellular Field.
The Rays will send out Andy Sonnanstine, the man with 4 Ns in his surname, against Gavin Floyd, the man with two first names. I've been trying to find someone with more than 4 Ns in his name, but it's hard to search such things. There was a Red Nonnenkamp. Bring out your Ns!
Cardboard Gods should return tonight with a far, far more interesting lead in to the game chat for the Red Sox-Angels game.
Yknow, surrounded by the blackened souls of the horrible people who are White Sox fans like Barack Obama (no Rule 5!) and Jerry Reinsdorf and Scott Long.
I consider that a plus for Obama that he's a Southsider.
Rooting for the Rays but wouldn't mind them taking this back home. Nothing like helping to build a fan base then to win their 1st series at home. While reviewing the BA league updates I've come to the opinion the Rays could have put together a better rotation on Aug 31st from their minor leagues then 1/2 the AL league.
Price, W Davis, Hellickson, Jeff Neimann, One Armed McGee.
Kazmir, Shields, and Garza are givens for 2009. You have to put Price in and Wade Davis should force his way in by July. That leaves them able to trade Sonnanstine, E Jackson, and Neimann while moving McGee to the Bullpen all from within the organization. Already set at 1st (Pena), 2nd (Iwamura), SS(Bartlett - Brignac), 3rd (Longoria), C (Navarro), LF (Crawford), CF (Upton) they only need to upgrade RF and DH. Maybe only one of those if they pick up Rocco's option now that he can play again.
2
I remember you as the only Philly fan at DT. Are you conflicted or is this a no-brainer for you? I never knew which way your highest loyalty lied. I suspect with the Phillies.
22
Uncle Miltie and I lobbied hard for him several years ago when TB was dicking around with him. Probably a good thing he didn't come here. If Kemp got roasted for what he did, Upton would have been crucified when he got very lazy this August and just decided he didn't need to run out ground balls. With his speed he can't make that determination, he's not Eric Karros.
15 I kind of like AJ, too. He's the kind of player you love when he plays for your team but you hate when he's on another team. He is good at stirring the pot.
28 I don't know that I have those kinds of players. There are players I dislike but tolerate when they play for my team -- not to name names, but their names rhyme with Jeff Kent and Kevin Brown -- but I never go so far as to like those players.
There are few players I truly dislike. I hated Nolan Ryan when he was with the Angels because of too many comparisons to Koufax. By the time he retired, I had learned to grudgingly admire him because all he accomplished in his later years. The same with Pete Rose. Barry Bonds I still dislike.
4 , no contest, born into Phillies phandom whiles the Dodgers were just another team on the schedule until discovering DT.
31 - Can we see how long we can keep this one going? Like so:
"Your Derek Jeter is my Sandy Koufax. The guy is a surefire Hall of Famer, but that doesn't stop some people from making him out to be more than he is. "
[31,32]Jeter rises to the occasion. I think back to that flip to Posada that got Jeremy Giambi at the plate in the playoffs, him flying into the stands to catch a pop up, plays like that. With Ryan, I always shared Buzzie Bavasi's sentiment when he let Ryan leave the Angels after a 16-14 season. "All I need to replace him are two 8-7 pitchers." You take Ryan's six best seasons throughout his career and they don't equal Koufax's 61-66 seasons. But you had to admire how long Ryan pitched, especially considering how hard he threw in the days long before pitch counts.
33 - if Ryan ever had a defense or offense to go with his game, he'd have been totally unstoppable. Even still, he was pretty much the most unhittable pitcher of his time.
Derek Jeter really doesn't have any contemporary comps. Thanks to the brilliant managing of Joe Torre, Jeter got lots of attention that a dozen other good-but-not-great players could have gotten. Combined with his good looks and the wisdom of staying unmarried, and you've got a guy who is disproportionately highly-regarded.
Who else achieved household name status during Jeter's career span? Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey Jr., Manny, Pujols, Vladdy, Randy Johnson, Maddux, Smoltz... they all seem pretty deserving of their fame.
36 Koufax 1964-66: 72 wins, 922 Ks, 20 shutouts, 69 complete games. ERAs of 1.74, 2.04, 1.73. All ERAs were better than one run below the league average. For the three years, Koufax had 202 total walks. Ryan walked 201 in 1974 alone. Ryan's best ERA was 2.89 in 74. The league ERA was 3.41.
38 You're kind of implying that Jeter is good-not-great. I don't know that that's fair. He scores very well on the HOF Standards and Monitor... less well on Black and Grey Ink, but he is a shortstop.
He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, which he will be when he retires. Five of his top 10 comps are HOFs, and among the other five are Barry Larking and Alan Trammell, who should both be in the HOF, and (in a weird coincidence) Joe Torre, who's borderline.
My problem with Jeter is how for some folks, this isn't enough.
Your Sandy Koufax is my Roger Clemens. I'll take Sandy any day of the week in a big game against Roger and I don't care how chemical enhanced Roger gets, he ain't winning the game unless the 66 Dodgers are playing behind Sandy.
42 Clemens is a bizarre figure these days. If you had asked me two years ago who I wanted on my team, Clemens or Maddux, I'd have gone with Clemens. 143 ERA+ vs. 132 for Maddux. 1300 strikeouts more than Maddux.
Will any stars of Jeter's level of hotness emerge from this Rays powerhouse that looks like it could easily get into the Series?
You pretty much have to play in NY or Boston, or break long-held records, to become a household name nowadays. I was thinking about Justin Morneau as a deeply overrated player, except he really isn't overrated since nobody actually knows who he is.
Rooting for the Rays but wouldn't mind them taking this back home. Nothing like helping to build a fan base then to win their 1st series at home. While reviewing the BA league updates I've come to the opinion the Rays could have put together a better rotation on Aug 31st from their minor leagues then 1/2 the AL league.
Price, W Davis, Hellickson, Jeff Neimann, One Armed McGee.
Kazmir, Shields, and Garza are givens for 2009. You have to put Price in and Wade Davis should force his way in by July. That leaves them able to trade Sonnanstine, E Jackson, and Neimann while moving McGee to the Bullpen all from within the organization. Already set at 1st (Pena), 2nd (Iwamura), SS(Bartlett - Brignac), 3rd (Longoria), C (Navarro), LF (Crawford), CF (Upton) they only need to upgrade RF and DH. Maybe only one of those if they pick up Rocco's option now that he can play again.
Sweet
I remember you as the only Philly fan at DT. Are you conflicted or is this a no-brainer for you? I never knew which way your highest loyalty lied. I suspect with the Phillies.
Hah hah.
Rays 1
You-can-put-it-on-the-boards 0
And the universe loves it!
So YOU'RE the one!
Hawk Harrelson Happy Moments 0
;-)
Man, he's impressive. Looks like Floyd's also given him a couple of fat pitches up in the zone.
Uncle Miltie and I lobbied hard for him several years ago when TB was dicking around with him. Probably a good thing he didn't come here. If Kemp got roasted for what he did, Upton would have been crucified when he got very lazy this August and just decided he didn't need to run out ground balls. With his speed he can't make that determination, he's not Eric Karros.
31 - Can we see how long we can keep this one going? Like so:
"Your Derek Jeter is my Sandy Koufax. The guy is a surefire Hall of Famer, but that doesn't stop some people from making him out to be more than he is. "
Who else achieved household name status during Jeter's career span? Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey Jr., Manny, Pujols, Vladdy, Randy Johnson, Maddux, Smoltz... they all seem pretty deserving of their fame.
I loved 34 though.
He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, which he will be when he retires. Five of his top 10 comps are HOFs, and among the other five are Barry Larking and Alan Trammell, who should both be in the HOF, and (in a weird coincidence) Joe Torre, who's borderline.
My problem with Jeter is how for some folks, this isn't enough.
Now, I don't know.
You pretty much have to play in NY or Boston, or break long-held records, to become a household name nowadays. I was thinking about Justin Morneau as a deeply overrated player, except he really isn't overrated since nobody actually knows who he is.
Party over at Cardboard Gods Angels/Red Sox thread! BEAUTIFUL!!
http://tinyurl.com/3hkx7a
I'm happy for the Rays, but that was kinda sad to see Griffey strike out in what could be his last at bat, to make the final out. :-(
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