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The Gray Lady declares: 'Kazmir trade was really, really, really bad'
2006-05-30 21:57
by Bob Timmermann

The New York Times has an examination of the ill-fated trade between the New York Mets and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays of Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.

At least you know that the deal has been certified as bad now by the Paper of Record.

2006-05-30 22:31:00
1.   Yu-Hsing Chen
What took them so long to figure out o_O

Zambrano is gone for probably the season and Kazmir looks like a Cy young winner, the Mets have no rotation depth at the moment... and only now they realize that's bad?

Kris Benson for Jorge Julio for El Duque probably will go down as a very dumb move also, let along throw away guys like Jae Soo.

2006-05-31 07:44:48
2.   Stevenalpert
The article paints the move as one of those 'good' mistakes that you learn from and suggests it is what put the Mets on their winning track. In fact it tries to twist the entire thing into a positive, while also comaparing the move the terrible Nolan Ryan trade. The reality is the Mets made the World Series in 1973 (two years after the Ryan trade) and may make it in 2006 (two years after the Kazmir trade) but in both instances it is just luck. The Mets made bold moves before (Mo Vaughn) and were unlucky. This time they have been lucky w/Delgado, etc.

I am tired of people criticizing the Benson deal, or attributing it to his hot wife. The Mets were roundly criticized for paying Benson all of that $. They found a taker and got themselves out of that mistake. If you criticize the contract, you do not get to then criticize the unloading of it. The Yankees would be thrilled to give away Povano and J. Wright the way the Mets gave away Benson.

The Mets have made the World Series four times (69, 73, 86, 2000) but have generally done very poorly the following year (sort of like the Marlins, but not to that extent). In fact I do not think they have ever even won their division the following year any of those times. What I am getting at is the Mets have never been built to last. Actually the 86 team was built to last, it just did not last. If we could have that Dodgers series from 1988 back we might have lasted--but Gooden's and Strawberry's drug and alcohol issues still would have cut that ride short. Is this 2006 team built to last? Tough call. It is a nice blend of youth and experience, but I see guys like Glavine as close to washed up. I am not high on Wagner long term, and Pedro is on his downside now. If the Mets had Ryan in the 70's they might have been built to last (though they also needed offense) and if they had Kazmir now I might feel they were built to last now. Kazmir was a terrible trade and it was evident at the time. It happens sometimes. Sometimes bad moves work out well and sometimes good moves work out badly (look at how teams who traded David Cone look back on those deals). Mostly it all comes down to luck.

2006-05-31 09:01:37
3.   Bob Timmermann
The article doesn't address one issue that is often brought up about the trade. I.e., that Al Leiter told Mets management that he didn't like Kazmir. I've never heard that verified and it could just be the venting of Mets fans who had grown tired of Leiter.
2006-05-31 09:45:27
4.   das411
Kazmir will be the first real (= not Wade Boggs) Devil Ray to enter the HOF.

Carl Crawford will not be far behind.

And why hasn't the NY media picked up on how bad Omar's #1 horrible trade of his career looks now: Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, and Cliff Lee for half a season of Bartolo Colon and an injured Duque.

2006-05-31 10:41:43
5.   grandcosmo
I haven't read the article. Does it mention Martha Burke?
2006-05-31 10:42:27
6.   Cliff Corcoran
4 Steinbrenner Principle: With the Expos Minaya was forced into bad moves because his bosses were not actual team owners looking to improve the team, but MLB.

I'm not saying it's legit, I'm just saying that's why.

Meanwhile, Carl Crawford is still very young and has a lot of talent and a lot of time to improve, but as someone who sees him play a lot, I don't think he'll sniff the Hall.

2006-05-31 11:13:44
7.   das411
Yeah Cliff I agree but DT had a pretty crazy discussion about him yesterday (?) in which the consensus was he'll finish up his career somewhere between Rickey and Lou Brock in lots of pretty counting stats.
2006-05-31 11:20:50
8.   Bob Timmermann
The gap between Lou Brock and Rickey Henderson is pretty big in my opinion. Brock was helped out a lot by playing well in thre World Series. But in retrospect, Brock's game had a lot of flaws. Such as fielding like Lonnie Smith.

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