Baseball Toaster The Griddle
A place where a man can slow down to a walk and live his life full measure, but he has to keep his watch on Pacific Time.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
The Griddle

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  10  07 
06  05  04  03 
Suggestions, comments, ring the catcher's interference alarm?

Email me at

The stuff I keep track of
Random Game Callbacks

Select a date:

Personal favorites that I wrote
Whose records are they?
2006-08-31 08:50
by Bob Timmermann

Alfonso Soriano of the Nationals has 43 home runs this season. If he gets to 45, he may or may not break a Nationals franchise record of 44 set by Vladimir Guerrero in Montreal in 2000.


Well, according to Barry Svrluga of the Washington Post, there is debate on just what a "Washington" record is. Some people argue that the Washington team records should include the Senators. ALL of the Senators teams. That would push the record up to 48, set by Frank Howard with Washington AL 2.0.

The article points out that the Texas Rangers (formerly Washington AL 2.0), doesn't include any marks set in Washington. However, the Minnesota Twins (formerly Washington AL 1.0) do.

The Baltimore Orioles pretend that the St. Louis Browns never existed. But what would you expect from the Orioles, baseball's most irrelevant franchise? They don't know that there have been far worse pitchers in their team's history than Russ Ortiz.

2006-08-31 09:28:08
1.   Cliff Corcoran
If you ask me, if the players carry over, the records (and retired numbers) should as well. So, Twins records should include original Senators records, and Rangers records should include expansion Senators records, but original Senators and expansion Senators records should never be mixed, and Expos and Nats records should be continuous, but separate from all Senators records.

C'mon, MLB, this isn't that hard. If they were the Washington Expos we wouldn't be having this debate, changing a team nickname is no reason to erase history.

2006-08-31 09:35:09
2.   the OZ
Are you sure the Padres aren't more irrelevant than the Orioles? I mean, geez, they retired Steve Garvey's number!
2006-08-31 09:37:32
3.   Bob Timmermann
From the article, it appears that MLB doesn't care. It's the decision of the team.

And I think the Orioles are less relevant now than the Padres. The Padres have a good shot at making the playoffs.

2006-08-31 09:53:05
4.   Peter
Vlad Guerrero never played for the Nationals, just as Walter Johnson never pitched for the Twins.
The way I see it, if a team takes on a new name when it moves, it's just like starting over as a different team. The Yankees, for example, waited until 2003 to celebrate their centennial, rather than acknowledge the 1901-02 Baltimore Orioles.
2006-08-31 10:09:34
5.   Bob Timmermann
If the 1901 or 1902 Orioles had been any good, the Yankees would count their records.

The Twins count the Washington records so they can have Walter Johnson attached to them.

The Sporting News record book starts every franchise over with a new set of records once it moves.

2006-08-31 11:07:59
6.   das411
But then how many homers did Willie Mays hit as a Giant Bob?
2006-08-31 12:25:48
7.   nickb
I never realized Mays was a Giant Bob. ;)
2006-08-31 12:35:16
8.   Bob Timmermann
Mays did not lead either the SF or NY Giants in career home runs.

I believe Ott is the NY leader and Bonds is the SF leader.

2006-08-31 13:53:08
9.   Bob Timmermann
I count 551 home runs for Bonds as a SF Giant. Mays had 494 and McCovey had 491.
2006-08-31 15:49:11
10.   Jacob L
The way I see it, the Naxpos can choose to ignore their franchise history if they want to, by virtue of the relocation and name change. They cannot, however, co-opt the history of 2 other franchises merely by playing in the same city and wearing similar hats. I'm going to be a hard liner on this and state that the Cleveland Browns record books starts in 2000 or whenever it was. A franchise is a franchise is a franchise.
2006-08-31 15:53:26
11.   Bob Timmermann
So how many league championships have the Dodgers and Cardinals won?

Some say the Dodgers have won 22 and the Cardinals have won 20.

However, neither team counts its championships in the American Association. So the Dodgers officially claim 21 and the Cardinals claim 16.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.