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College football's ultimate game - open chat
2007-01-08 16:35
by Bob Timmermann

Well, they aren't playing any more games after this one this season are they?

The Division 1-A season started on August 31, 2006 when Boston College faced off against Central Michigan in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. The Eagles won 31-24.

And on January 8, 2006, the season ends with Florida facing Ohio State in Glendale, Arizona at University of Phoenix Stadium.

Is there University of Phoenix campus near your home? I think it's in 39 states, along with Puerto Rico and Canada.

Comments (108)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-01-08 16:42:48
1.   Greg Brock
Jim Tressel, heir apparent to Barry Switzer as shady coach that I despise. Well, Phil Fulmer is still around, so it's a close one.
2007-01-08 16:44:52
2.   Bob Timmermann
Did Barry Switzer ever wear a sweater vest?
2007-01-08 16:54:29
3.   Xeifrank
Let's see who comes closest to the final score.

Florida: 20
Ohio State: 37
vr, Xei

2007-01-08 16:55:28
4.   Greg Brock
Florida 23
Ohio St 21
2007-01-08 16:55:44
5.   Berkeley Doug
Florida 23
Ohio State 20
2007-01-08 17:01:15
6.   Greg Brock
The more important question: Do we see more ads for 24, Prison Break, or American Idol?

I'm going with 24.

2007-01-08 17:03:58
7.   Berkeley Doug
24 - but it will be at least three times worse during the football games next weekend.
2007-01-08 17:07:13
8.   Greg Brock
Wow. The Salvation Army has an outstanding marching band.
2007-01-08 17:29:51
9.   Rich Lederer
Isn't it a little bit late to be talking about USC's Rose Bowl victory over Michigan???
2007-01-08 17:30:26
10.   D4P
Hear the salvation army band
Down by the riverside, its bound to be a better ride
Than what youve got planned
2007-01-08 17:37:44
11.   Bob Timmermann
It's over before I even reach the parking lot.
2007-01-08 17:47:56
12.   Andrew Shimmin
Speaking of the Rose Bowl, is there any prize money for award winning floats, in the parade? Or, like, frozen yogurt gift certificates?
2007-01-08 18:08:00
13.   Greg Brock
Welcome to the Southeastern Conference, where the D Tackles are as fast as the quarterbacks and tight ends.
2007-01-08 18:17:36
14.   Bob Timmermann
The Rose Parade winners just get certificates.
2007-01-08 18:23:13
15.   bhsportsguy
Ohio State is now facing its largest deficit of the season, 14 points. They only gave up more than 17 points once, that was their last game against Michigan.
2007-01-08 18:25:09
16.   twerp
1 Why do you think Fulmer is shady?
2007-01-08 18:25:29
17.   Bob Timmermann
Since I'm late to the game... which conference are the officials from?
2007-01-08 18:27:03
18.   twerp
17. From your conference, Pac-10, I think.
2007-01-08 18:28:27
19.   Bob Timmermann
I've not seen this ref however or I guess I just don't remember him.
2007-01-08 18:29:47
20.   Bob Timmermann
OK, I found confirmation that it is a Pac-10 crew and the referee is Jack Folliard.
2007-01-08 18:31:32
21.   Greg Brock
17 Pacific Ten Conference.

Phil Fulmer is shady because he graduates 9% of his players, recruits players hard after they've verballed to other schools, he uses his vote in the coaches poll as a weapon against coaches he dislikes, and casts players aside when they can no longer help him run his dirty program. He is not a good human being.

2007-01-08 18:33:48
22.   Greg Brock
He also ranked Michigan fourth in the ballot the year they went undefeated. The national championship was split because of his vote, giving another title to Tom Osborne as a going away present. Because dirty coaches take care of one another.
2007-01-08 18:36:39
23.   twerp
This game's a long way from over, but here's an interesting stat:

Ohio State record vs. SEC in bowls==


2007-01-08 18:39:06
24.   Bob Timmermann
That includes two losses to South Carolina!
2007-01-08 18:42:02
25.   Bob Timmermann
I have Florida with a 4-3 record against Big 10 teams in bowls, not counting the 1962 Gator Bowl win over Penn State since the Nittany Lions weren't in the Big 10 then.
2007-01-08 18:44:09
26.   ToyCannon
My best friend despises Fulmer and now I know why. Would you still support UCLA if you knew you had a dirty but successful coach or do we have dirty and unsuccessful coaches?
2007-01-08 18:46:22
27.   twerp
24 Ohio State overall bowl record 15-19, 6- 7 Rose Bowl.

But 3-9 last 12...

2007-01-08 18:47:29
28.   Greg Brock
26 Never in a million years. I would stop rooting for UCLA if they became one of those programs. I'm fine with being a consistent top 25 team and making a run at a title once every fifteen years or so. I don't expect to be elite, and wouldn't want to compromise the school's image for it.

Mike Dubose at Alabama was dirty and unsuccessful.

2007-01-08 18:55:05
29.   D4P
Never in a million years

So whatchour saying is you might do it in 1,000,001 years...

2007-01-08 18:57:15
30.   Bob Timmermann
Red Sanders was successful at UCLA, but he ran afoul of NCAA and conference rules at times. But there was a season when most of the PCC was on probation. UCLA and USC were handing out cash left and right.
2007-01-08 18:57:34
31.   Greg Brock
29 I make no promises.

4-13 on field goals? Gadzooks. Of course he nails a perfect kick.

2007-01-08 19:00:32
32.   Greg Brock
All white wide receivers are possession receivers, whether they are or not. And only white point guards can be "heady" ballplayers.

And then there is "swagger"

2007-01-08 19:07:17
33.   Greg Brock
Kid is Ray Wersching all of a sudden
2007-01-08 19:08:54
34.   Bob Timmermann
You're sounding very Slate-ish there. Be careful.

I read today that Jeffrey Archer is writing a book stating that Judas Iscariot wasn't a bad guy and got a bad rap.

I fully expected that to be a Slate aritcle. Maybe something like "Why Jesus really hates your guts and wants you to suffer and why that's good!"

2007-01-08 19:11:47
35.   D4P
Judas Iscariot wasn't a bad guy and got a bad rap

Well, certainly modern society can't condemn a guy for having his actions dictated by money. That's pretty much what our culture is all about.

Plus, he repented before killing himself and threw the silver coins back in the religious leaders' faces.

2007-01-08 19:12:14
36.   Greg Brock
34 If the betrayal of Jesus was a necessary condition for the crucifixion and resurrection, than Judas was given a difficult task by his boss and carried it out. Right?
2007-01-08 19:12:29
37.   Bob Timmermann
I guess teams that wear blue and orange play well in Glendale, AZ.
2007-01-08 19:13:42
38.   Vishal
hahahah this is awesome.
2007-01-08 19:14:07
39.   Greg Brock
Barring a second half disaster, I am due a good chunk of change come tomorrow.
2007-01-08 19:14:30
40.   Bob Timmermann
From the AP:

Archer's publisher, Macmillan, said the book imagines Judas as a politician who betrays Jesus not for money, but because of the belief he is an ineffective leader unable to challenge the authority of the Romans. Unlike the Gospels, Judas does not kill himself but instead survives and recounts his story to a son — the narrator of Archer's book.

2007-01-08 19:16:46
41.   twerp
21 28 I don't have Fulmer on a pedestal. He has limitations, IMO. And I don't claim to be as up on this stuff as I was at one time.

But I've read the UT football graduation rate is improving; not sure it was ever as low as you cite. IMO, graduation rates at any school which feeds the NFL are a bit misleading, since quite a few players leave early and thus don't graduate. For that matter many don't come to college to get a degree, whatever the merits of that. For me it's lack of merit; many of them think they're sure shots for the NFL. Reality says otherwise.

A few come back to graduate after pro careers. But no doubt there's room for improvement in grad rates in almost all big-time college football programs.

Bob, doesn't your favorite team in South Bend graduate all or almost all its players?

2007-01-08 19:16:52
42.   Vishal
oh, bob. slate isn't that bad. yeah, they like contrarianism, but most of their articles aren't like that anymore.
2007-01-08 19:17:06
43.   Bob Timmermann
This BCS championship could be coming to Florida courtesy of DeWayne Walker. Or possibly Lane Kiffin's stubbornness.
2007-01-08 19:18:29
44.   Bob Timmermann
You must have missed the "John Wooden is evil" article they ran last month.
2007-01-08 19:31:57
45.   Bob Timmermann
Also, Slate has run articles on why diving is good for soccer; why AAU basketball should replace NCAA basketball (it's purer!); and countless pieces on why various classics of literature are crap.
2007-01-08 19:32:07
46.   D4P
I'm watching "The White Rapper Show" on VH1 right now, not because there's much chance of me enjoying it, but because one of the contestants ("Misfit") is a friend of a friend.
2007-01-08 19:32:11
47.   twerp
Fulmer, cont'd...(aren't you all thrilled!)...

In big-time college football, I don't know of any coach who won't keep trying after a player they want has verbally committed elsewhere, if he thinks he has any chance. At one time they didn't, at least not like now.

The voting issue I can't speak to. A lot of times things like that are influenced by sectional rivalries (if I don't vote teams from my area higher than I really think they deserve, they won't rank where they should since voters from other parts of the country will vote them lower, etc.) Also coaches aren't very familiar with teams they don't see or play and don't have time during the season to get familiar with them.

I think you can make a strong argument that coaches shouldn't have a poll. They have plenty to do otherwise; of course they'd see that as a threat and be against it.

2007-01-08 19:32:49
48.   Vishal
hehe, yeah i saw it and the resultant controversy on DT. i'm not saying they're completely immune to their deep-seated contrarian impulses, but the quality of the articles has steadily improved, and they're not all like the john wooden piece. but they should've known better than put up an article that elicits a Timmermann Grudge™. i sure know i wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of those.
2007-01-08 19:34:00
49.   D4P
Ugh. The first 3 minutes have been painful.
2007-01-08 19:39:12
50.   Bob Timmermann
They also didn't hire me to be The Explainer!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-01-08 19:43:52
51.   Ravenscar
Let's go Pelfrey!

Oh, um, wait, I thought that after that halftime it was already April.

I have no real loyalty here, but I kind of have to root against Florida because my sister's ex-husband went to Miami and her dumping him kind of sent him into a tailspin.

2007-01-08 19:44:19
52.   Ravenscar
One of the bands is playing Carmina Burana.
2007-01-08 19:46:07
53.   Bob Timmermann
When the UCLA band played "O Fortuna" from "Carmina Burana", they called it "The theme from 'Gladiator'".

I wept.

2007-01-08 19:46:24
54.   Ravenscar
Trickeration: negatory.
2007-01-08 19:47:15
55.   Greg Brock
54 A shank is a shank. Rolling out and punting isn't very difficult.
2007-01-08 19:47:18
56.   Ravenscar
53. Ouch.

What's even worse is I don't even remember it being in that film.

2007-01-08 19:47:33
57.   twerp
Fulmer, last take (now you all really ARE thrilled; I can tell.)

Do you have specific players you think Fulmer has cast aside?

He has a reputation as a players' coach, one of the biggest assets he has in his greatest strength, recruiting.

I'm not aware of anyone dismissed unfairly. In fact, the program probably would be on better footing now if Fulmer had suspended or booted a few more than what he has--the ones who sometimes color the Knoxville police blotter orange.

I said at the start I don't have him on a pedestal. He has been a great recruiter, which supposedly is 80% of winning (kind of like pitching is supposed to be 80% of baseball...where did those percentages come from, anyhow?)

But as an innovator or stragegist or game coach I don't think he's upper echelon. Former coach Johnny Majors once said of Fulmer's coaching, "if it required genius, it wouldn't happen at UT." Majors may have reason to be bitter, but what he said has merit.

2007-01-08 19:48:47
58.   Ravenscar
Whenever anyone loses their helmet like that I always wait for that person to get literally killed. Scary.
2007-01-08 19:49:13
59.   Bob Timmermann
Troy Smith is having a Jason White-esque performance in the big game!
2007-01-08 19:50:09
60.   Bob Timmermann
If the ball carrier loses his helmet, the play is blown dead in college ball.

But not in the NFL. Shockey ran a few yards without a helmet yesterday.

2007-01-08 19:52:08
61.   twerp
I'll throw in a joke, which can be adapted to fill in the names of your favorite public or private football school. Then I probably will be quiet. (Once again, readers ARE thrilled!)

How many Vanderbilt players does it take to change a flat tire?

Two. One to mix drinks. One to call daddy.

How many UT players does it take?

Just one. But he gets three hours credit.

2007-01-08 19:52:30
62.   Ravenscar
I saw that Giants game, but I didn't notice that play there in this getting whistled dead before the tackle. Did it? He seemed to run a good 7 or 8 yards to make that tackle.
2007-01-08 19:53:19
63.   Ravenscar
61 - the first part of that joke would work better for my alma mater, Vassar.
2007-01-08 19:54:02
64.   Bob Timmermann

Apparently a tackler's head isn't as important as the tacklee.

2007-01-08 19:54:10
65.   Greg Brock
I don't want to turn this into a Fulmer threadjack. I'll just say that there is plenty to read about around the tubes and you are more than welcome to do it. Every account of the man reflects a repugnant human being. And the graduation rate was actually 11 percent. I stand corrected.
2007-01-08 19:54:48
66.   Bob Timmermann
Washington State is ranked in the top 25 in basketball now. First time since 1983.
2007-01-08 19:55:27
67.   Marty
Every time Ohio State gives up points, an Angel gets his wings.
2007-01-08 19:57:28
68.   Ravenscar
Maybe the band could switch over to the Dies Irae from Verdi's Requiem now that I've heard this O Fortuna twice already.

Keeping Florida from scoring is good for Ohio State, but Florida can trade 3-and-outs all night now.

2007-01-08 19:58:45
69.   Bob Timmermann

In volleyball terms, Florida can play a side out game from now on.

2007-01-08 19:58:54
70.   D4P
First time since 1983

No Top-25 rankings during Hendrickson's tenure...?

2007-01-08 20:01:16
71.   Bob Timmermann
I believe they went to the NIT once during that time.

Wazzu has 14 wins, the most they've had in 10 years.

2007-01-08 20:02:08
72.   Ravenscar
Pretty! I give that play a thumbs up. Reminiscent of the Idaho State game, but not as cool.
2007-01-08 20:02:56
73.   Ravenscar
SU's college ranking seems to have tanked a bit this year.
2007-01-08 20:05:48
74.   Bob Timmermann
I think you meant Boise State in 72. Idaho State still is in I-AA.

Idaho has moved up to I-A.

Idaho State was the basketball team that got Gene Bartow to quit.

2007-01-08 20:06:09
75.   D4P
I am probably not the only person around here who probably (I don't remember for sure) saw Hendrickson play hoops for the Cougs. How weird to think that he went on from that to become a pitcher for the Dodgers...
2007-01-08 20:07:21
76.   Ravenscar
74 - I'm sure I screwed it up. It was the Fiesta Bowl with the two trick plays at the end.
2007-01-08 20:09:21
77.   Bob Timmermann
I remembered Hendrickson as a basketball player. He was pretty good and there weren't many other good players surrounding him.
2007-01-08 20:10:42
78.   Ravenscar
Ohio State just doesn't look like they can win this one.
2007-01-08 20:11:18
79.   Bob Timmermann
Hendrickson! Send it in!

2007-01-08 20:15:08
80.   Greg Brock
I don't like many commercials, but I really like the Caddy commercial with the Iggy Pop song.

Good stuff

2007-01-08 20:16:12
81.   Ravenscar
80 - They did use a great song, but it always bums me out a bit. I always like that one better than "Lust for Life" anyhow.
2007-01-08 20:16:27
82.   Bob Timmermann
Marty will disagree with you.


2007-01-08 20:19:11
83.   Ravenscar
Ohio State is going to need to suit up all those characters from "Heroes" to win this game.
2007-01-08 20:21:31
84.   Ravenscar
82 - Marty Brennaman doesn't like that commercial because he's an Iggy purist?
2007-01-08 20:22:02
85.   Greg Brock
82 I missed Marty's opinion on that ad. What's not to like? All the old Cadillacs, cool song. The one minute ad is on YouTube.
2007-01-08 20:22:22
86.   twerp
65 Agreed; too much Fulmer. Partly my bad.

Yes, there's a lot out there to read. Some of it is actually factual. Much just isn't.

But I follow UT closely enough to know that Fulmer's not a "repugnant human being."

If you'd care to e-mail me something you think proves he is, I'm willing to take a look.

2007-01-08 20:24:09
87.   Ravenscar

I'm hearing Neil Young's plaintive cries about the state of Ohio watching that sack.

2007-01-08 20:24:42
88.   Bob Timmermann
Comment 36 of the New Year's Day thread:

OK, Cadillac has gone too far now. Using an Iggy Pop song to sell their cars.

2007-01-08 20:25:18
89.   Bob Timmermann
Even Jason White didn't have this bad of a game in the Orange Bowl against USC.
2007-01-08 20:28:56
90.   Bob Timmermann
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
2007-01-08 20:39:00
91.   Ravenscar

Oh, I meant "American Dream".


2007-01-08 20:39:55
92.   Vishal
hey bob, when's the last time a school won both the basketball and football championships successively (in either order)?
2007-01-08 20:45:18
93.   Ravenscar
This is making me wish I had placed a bet on the underdog.
2007-01-08 20:49:04
94.   Bob Timmermann
The last time?

It will be the first time.

UCLA and Kentucky haven't exactly been piling up championships in football.

2007-01-08 20:52:09
95.   Xeifrank
Ohio State and Michigan sure looked pretty bad in their respective bowl games. I'm sure the half season layoff didn't help.
vr, Xei
2007-01-08 20:52:36
96.   Bob Timmermann
In 1950, Kentucky went 11-1 and won the Sugar Bowl. It was the only time the Wildcats ever won the SEC by themselves. (They tied in 1976.)

Kentucky won in basketball in 1951.

2007-01-08 20:56:13
97.   Bob Timmermann
Nobody put a gun to the Big 10 and made them end their schedule earlier than everybody else.
2007-01-08 20:57:11
98.   Bob Timmermann
And in 1967, UCLA was ranked #1 headed into the USC game and lead 20-14 late in the game ...
2007-01-08 20:59:29
99.   D4P
lead 20-14 late in the game ...

Oh oh, did they win? Huh? Did they?

2007-01-08 21:07:26
100.   Xeifrank
50 day layoff is bizarre. Anything over 2-3 weeks off is bizarre. The whole system is bizarre. We need a playoff system.
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-01-08 21:15:25
101.   Bob Timmermann
We, being who?
2007-01-08 21:19:27
102.   Daniel Zappala
Per earlier comments, Judas is "hot" right now. See:

The Lost Gospel: The Quest for the Gospel of Judas Iscariot, by Herbert Krosney, Bart D. Ehrman

and it's companion

The Gospel of Judas, by National Geographic Society

that discuss a recently-translated Gnostic gospel claiming that Judas was actually performing an act of obedience, that Jesus had instructed him to commit his act of betrayal. We now return you to the football chat.

2007-01-08 21:21:24
103.   Greg Brock
102 That's what I was alluding to.
2007-01-08 21:23:38
104.   twerp
65 Not looking to argue, and I won't be commenting further on this. But this link to an '06 AP story says national 1A football grad rate 66%, Tennessee's 58%.

Grad rates are kind of like political polls; they can be all over the map depending on who's counted, what period is measured, etc. I think the formula has been refigured at least once.

I did find one source giving UT a 38% rate for '05 and 41% for '04.

2007-01-08 21:25:05
105.   Bob Timmermann
Coming up in Slate:

"Why we shouldn't cure AIDS"
"Cancer is good for you"
"Mark Twain: Hack writer"
"Why the Police Academy series should have won Oscars"

2007-01-08 21:25:54
106.   Greg Brock
The grad rate to which I was referring was from six or seven years ago. We agree to disagree on Fulmer. It happens.
2007-01-08 21:39:14
107.   trainwreck
Well I got a nice buzz, but that game was terrible.
2007-01-09 10:23:15
108.   Xeifrank
101. Myself and everyone I speak for.
vr, Xei

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