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[ Open thread ]
2007-03-11 13:54
by Bob Timmermann

You can chat here about the NCAA basketball tournament. I'll likely run a contest (with the help of bhsportsguy) that will have a prize worth a sum somewhere between $0 and $0. But I promise to put the winner's name on the sidebar!

Comments (138)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-03-11 14:03:54
1.   Bob Timmermann
#1 seeds
Florida - Midwest
North Carolina - East
Ohio State - South
Kansas - West
2007-03-11 14:07:36
2.   trainwreck
2007-03-11 14:09:53
3.   Bob Timmermann
For Steve's sake, UNLV better get a higher seed than UCLA.
2007-03-11 14:10:38
4.   trainwreck
lol sucks for arizona
2007-03-11 14:11:35
5.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona could beat Florida. That wouldn't shock me.
2007-03-11 14:13:28
6.   trainwreck
So I guess UCLA and Kansas.
2007-03-11 14:13:47
7.   Bob Timmermann
Oregon likely to face Notre Dame in the second round. I will be a big Ducks fan.

Unless you think Winthrop can beat Notre Dame, which would make me very happy.

2007-03-11 14:14:24
8.   Sam DC
Is it Quakers/Tar Heels.

Because that one'd be a nailbiter for sure.

2007-03-11 14:14:49
9.   trainwreck
Oregon and Florida would be a funny matchup.
2007-03-11 14:15:40
10.   Bob Timmermann
UNLV is a #7 seed. Steve is likely breathing fire now.
2007-03-11 14:16:29
11.   Bob Timmermann
Before the Pac-10 tournament started, I didn't think Oregon was all that good, but once it was over, I just knew that they were the best team!
2007-03-11 14:18:14
12.   Gen3Blue
Wish I knew something about roundball.
2007-03-11 14:18:41
13.   Gen3Blue
Wish I knew something about roundball.
2007-03-11 14:20:09
14.   trainwreck
Howland against his alma mater.
2007-03-11 14:21:05
15.   trainwreck
West is the defense bracket.
2007-03-11 14:21:59
16.   Sandus
Wisconsin was totally insulted. Only 5 losses, and two of them to the number one team in the country?

How is North Carolina a #1 in a weak ACC?

2007-03-11 14:22:20
17.   trainwreck
We have storylines up the wazzu for UCLA.
2007-03-11 14:23:47
18.   trainwreck
ACC is regarded as best conference in country.
2007-03-11 14:24:28
19.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA is 1-0 alltime against Weber State!
2007-03-11 14:26:06
20.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA beat Weber State 90-58 in the first round of the 1972 tournament in Provo.
2007-03-11 14:27:07
21.   Bob Timmermann
Trojans vs. Hogs in Spokane.

The winner will get Texas or New Mexico State.

2007-03-11 14:27:20
22.   trainwreck
lol if USC can get passed Arkansas they get rewarded with Kevin Durant.
2007-03-11 14:27:58
23.   Prescott Pete
Does not look good for Cardinal.
2007-03-11 14:28:31
24.   Bob Timmermann
Vandy a #6 seed. Buster Olney does a happy dance!
2007-03-11 14:29:32
25.   Bob Timmermann
Seth Davis is not high on Washington State.
2007-03-11 14:29:57
26.   Bob Timmermann
Then again, Washington State has won something like one NCAA tournament game in the last 65 years.
2007-03-11 14:30:01
27.   Sandus
18Not this year.
2007-03-11 14:34:13
28.   trainwreck
What a scrappy game for BYU.
2007-03-11 14:34:40
29.   Bob Timmermann
I detect a nuclear explosion coming from Ontario.
2007-03-11 14:34:47
30.   D4P
If Oregon beats Notre Dame, Bob spends a month in Oregon
2007-03-11 14:35:47
31.   Bob Timmermann
So will CBS show the Long Beach-Tennessee game in the L.A. market?
2007-03-11 14:36:29
32.   Bob Timmermann
Cardinals vs. Cardinal!
2007-03-11 14:36:38
33.   trainwreck
Cardinals vs Cardinal
2007-03-11 14:36:50
34.   Jon Weisman
Wow, I really thought those two missed free throws by Anthony Goods at the end of the second half against USC would knock Stanford out.
2007-03-11 14:36:50
35.   Bob Timmermann
Too late!
2007-03-11 14:38:38
36.   Bob Timmermann
Does anyone really miss Syracuse in the tournament?
2007-03-11 14:39:45
37.   Bob Timmermann
Seth Davis is on his high horse now.
2007-03-11 14:44:23
38.   Bob Timmermann
I looked over Syracuse's schedule this year.

They should be enjoying the NIT. Any good nonconference team they played, they lost to, with the exception of Penn.

2007-03-11 14:44:54
39.   D4P
Oh, they're letting MWC teams play this year...? How cute.
2007-03-11 14:48:45
40.   Bob Timmermann
BYU vs. Xavier in a battle to see whom God likes more!
2007-03-11 14:49:33
41.   Icaros
Huh, my AM is in the tournament and I didn't even know.
2007-03-11 14:52:20
42.   Bob Timmermann
Two university systems got two schools in the tournament:

1) Nevada along with UNLV
2) Texas A&M (College Station) and Texas A&M Corpus Christi

2007-03-11 14:52:51
43.   Bob Timmermann
The 49ers won the Big West last night, coming from way back against Cal Poly SLO.
2007-03-11 15:00:41
44.   D4P
One's former school is known as "alma mater".

Is there a corresponding term for one's current school?

2007-03-11 15:00:50
45.   Icaros

I actually watched about a quarter of a 49ers game this year, mainly because I was so amazed it was on TV, especially up here (ESPN2).

It's weird to see them as "LBSU" on the broadcast scoreboard. On campus, it's always "CSULB." I think they moved away from the former moniker sometime around the late-80s/early-90s.

2007-03-11 15:05:10
46.   D4P
Does anyone else have two-attended schools in the "Dance"...? And if so, is their average seeding higher than 2?
2007-03-11 15:08:05
47.   Bob Timmermann
Daniel Zappala has four school allegiances I believe and I thought all four schools were in.
2007-03-11 15:08:31
48.   bhsportsguy
I am thinking of a contest like Bob's for the Pac-10, here's the scoring

1st Round - 1 point (32 points max)*
2nd Round - 2 points (32 points max)*
3rd Round - 4 points (32 points max)*
4th Round - 8 points (32 points max)*
5th Round - 16 points (32 points max)*
6th Round - Final 32 points

*Seed differential points, if you pick a 12 seed to beat a 5, you get 7 more points.

Tiebreaker - Final Score prediction

What does everyone think?

2007-03-11 15:08:40
49.   Bob Timmermann
Jon's schools' average seeding is 6.5 I believe.
2007-03-11 15:11:51
50.   Bob Timmermann
I would only use the seeding differences in the first four rounds.

And we would need settle the question of points for "adjacent seeds" especially for the four 8-9 games. If a win by 9 is worth two points, everyone will take the 9 team because it is worth more and likely to lose in the next round anyway.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-03-11 15:11:53
51.   Bob Timmermann
I would only use the seeding differences in the first four rounds.

And we would need settle the question of points for "adjacent seeds" especially for the four 8-9 games. If a win by 9 is worth two points, everyone will take the 9 team because it is worth more and likely to lose in the next round anyway.

2007-03-11 15:13:29
52.   Icaros
Could you say that again, Bob?
2007-03-11 15:20:14
53.   yankz
I already am a big Ducks fan. I have no idea why.
2007-03-11 15:30:31
54.   Steve
They appear to have done a fine job except for Stanford over Drexel, which cannot be justified under any criteria the committee claims it uses to decide who should be in the tournament.
2007-03-11 15:35:43
55.   trainwreck
Huggins kept telling everyone that K-State should not even be in the bubble watch conversation because they were clearly in.


2007-03-11 15:39:43
56.   Jon Weisman
54 - Maybe they have something against Dabney Coleman.

I'm thinking Steve and Bob might get that joke, maybe, but I don't know that anyone else will.

2007-03-11 15:40:02
57.   trainwreck
Memphis is such a garbage number 2 team.
2007-03-11 15:40:29
58.   trainwreck
Drexler's Class?
2007-03-11 15:40:40
59.   trainwreck
I remember that show.
2007-03-11 15:41:22
60.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Clyde Drexler ever had a sitcom.
2007-03-11 15:42:22
61.   trainwreck
Drexles I mean
2007-03-11 15:42:36
62.   Steve
Syracuse? Words fail.
2007-03-11 15:42:57
63.   trainwreck
I think Stanford matches up well against Louisville, except for the fact that it is basically a home game for the Cardinals.
2007-03-11 15:47:34
64.   Bob Timmermann
Almost time for the NIT brackets to be unveiled!
2007-03-11 15:49:54
65.   Bob Timmermann
Florida being the overall #1 seed is puzzling unless JoeyP was on the selection committee.
2007-03-11 15:51:10
66.   trainwreck
I do not think I have heard one analyst today predict a victory for Washington State.
2007-03-11 15:56:55
67.   Bob Timmermann
Oral Roberts: "Expect a Miracle!"

I don't know if they still have that painted on the baselines at their home court.

2007-03-11 16:04:17
68.   trainwreck
Do not usually see Kansas, UCLA, Duke, Kentucky, and Indiana in the same bracket.
2007-03-11 16:06:16
69.   Trojan Ron
Arkansas will have the revenge factor against USC, since they can't beat them in football. Ought to be interesting.

Haven't seen much of Duke this year. Can they even beat VCU?

2007-03-11 16:09:23
70.   Steve
I forgot the all encompassing "cute nickname matchup" criterion. Its good they are not the Stanford Trees after all.
2007-03-11 16:13:19
71.   Trojan Ron
Watching "Bracketology."

According to the Princeton guy running the committee, the Trees were in over Syracuse because of the Pac-10's round-robin schedule. The Bruins lost their #1 seed by showing up Thursday to play Cal.

2007-03-11 16:13:48
72.   trainwreck
VCU is like a less talented version of Oregon. Very small and quick. Duke has problems with those types of players, but their size should get them the win.
2007-03-11 16:14:32
73.   trainwreck
VCU had a fight with George Mason in their championship game and Mason was not very good this year.
2007-03-11 16:16:27
74.   Bob Timmermann
The best nickname matchup is the Great Danes vs. the Cavaliers.

I like that they went back to the old names of "West" and "East", etc.

My "Oakland Regional Champion" t-shirt is now a relic.

2007-03-11 16:20:19
75.   Trojan Ron
Howland on "Bracketology": "We got to work on things in practice that we haven't worked on since October 15 ... we got back to the basics."

Translation: They ran lines. Many lines. Many, many lines.

2007-03-11 16:21:42
76.   Bob Timmermann
Howland: "Darren, this is a basketball. Guard it well."

Collison: "Yes, sir."

2007-03-11 16:32:38
77.   Steve
If the choice was between Stanford and Syracuse, then the Committee should have just drawn a circle in the parking lot, jumped out the window, and if a majority landed in the circle, Stanford was in, and if not, Syracuse was in.
2007-03-11 16:36:51
78.   Bob Timmermann
I'm waiting for Jim Boeheim to come out and graciously accept the reality of Syracuse not making the tournament. Boeheim is always a friendly and amiable sort...
2007-03-11 16:38:41
79.   Sam DC
I have two schools (Penn, UCLA) -- not an average of 2 however.
2007-03-11 16:40:27
80.   D4P
I have two schools (Penn, UCLA)

I applied for jobs at both of those schools*!!!

*I haven't heard back yet, and it has been a long time...

2007-03-11 16:43:08
81.   Trojan Ron
77 - Made me laugh out loud. [do all the kids today still use that ROFL acronym? seems so disingenuous.]
2007-03-11 16:45:04
82.   trainwreck
"I do not pay attention to the pundits, but every single one I heard had us in."
2007-03-11 16:45:47
83.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Boeheim is stunned.

Sorry, Jim.

You'll enjoy the NIT.

2007-03-11 16:48:22
84.   dianagramr
Nice Nike tracksuit to wear on National TV, Mr. Impartial Tourney Selection Committee Chair!
2007-03-11 16:50:28
85.   Bob Timmermann
At least he wasn't holding a Coke.

I am surprised that he didn't change in to a jacket and tie.

2007-03-11 16:53:12
86.   D4P
PSHAW! Oregon beat both UCLA and Georgetown, and yet who got the 2 seeds and who got the 3...?
2007-03-11 16:53:19
87.   trainwreck
Holy crud! Of all people Bob Huggins has the greatest answer to being snubbed.

"We should have won more games."

2007-03-11 16:57:28
88.   trainwreck
Doug Gottlieb has UNLV in the Elite 8!
2007-03-11 16:58:39
89.   Bob Timmermann
Steve got to Doug Gottlieb. I hear he threatened to throw someone from Gottlieb's family from the rafters of an arena.
2007-03-11 17:00:18
90.   Trojan Ron
Dickie V (not in the Hall of Fame) likes Oregon in the Elite 8. I kind of like them, too ...
2007-03-11 17:01:16
91.   trainwreck
I think Oregon makes it to Elite 8 too.
2007-03-11 17:01:27
92.   Bob Timmermann
Whew! Dick Vitale picks Oregon to stall in the Elite Eight! Saving me a trip to the Beaver State.

But if Oregon did beat Florida, I would gladly spend a week in Oregon. Maybe even two.

I really hate this Florida team. They are quickly approaching the level of hatred I reserve for Notre Dame football teams.

2007-03-11 17:03:02
93.   trainwreck
Noah has got to be the biggest punk in college basketball in years.
2007-03-11 17:03:43
94.   trainwreck
Well, after Ryan Appleby.
2007-03-11 17:05:24
95.   Bob Timmermann
For me, it starts with Billy Donovan. Then it just filters on down.

And since Florida already won in football, the state of Florida would be insufferable.

Save us Obi-Wan Kent, you're our only hope!

2007-03-11 17:06:56
96.   D4P
Saving me a trip to the Beaver State

I thought we agreed that a win over Notre Dame was good enough for a northerly trip...?

2007-03-11 17:07:11
97.   trainwreck
I dislike too many coaches to single out Donovan. He is just another snake oil salesman type of recruiter.
2007-03-11 17:21:54
98.   Bob Timmermann
A win over Notre Dame is worth a weekend trip to Portland!
2007-03-11 17:23:49
99.   D4P
It sure is!
2007-03-11 18:01:43
100.   Bob Timmermann
The elite 32 of the NIT:

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-03-11 18:04:10
101.   Steve
I'm not convinced that Oregon can handle Winthrop in the second round.
2007-03-11 18:08:37
102.   D4P
Are you convinced that Oregon can handle Miami (OH) in the first...?
2007-03-11 18:09:27
103.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Wally Sczerbiak is suiting up for the Redhawks anymore.
2007-03-11 18:12:15
104.   D4P
Are you Sczer...?
2007-03-11 18:14:18
105.   Steve
2007-03-11 18:36:50
106.   Bob Timmermann
For entertainment purposes only:

2007-03-11 18:55:00
107.   StolenMonkey86
73 - Yeah, sadly Mason didn't get it together until the CAA tourney, where they beat Hofstra and ODU. They were going to beat VCU but blew a 5 point lead at the last minute.
2007-03-11 19:21:30
108.   Uncle Miltie
Well, after Ryan Appleby.
Yea, nobody is worse than Appleby.

I have two schools (Penn, UCLA)
Is that UPenn or Penn State?

Did Steve go to UNLV? If so, does he happen to run a hotel?

I can't believe that Washington didn't make the NIT. Pretty hilarious.

Oregon in the Elite 8? I don't know about that. Do you really think they could beat Wisconsin? I don't.

I'd love to see Arizona beat Florida. I can't stand that team, especially Noah. It is hard to root against a guy like Corey Brewer though.

2007-03-11 19:25:32
109.   Steve
I have become the voice of MWC basketball, ill-suited as I am to the task.
2007-03-11 19:42:04
110.   Bob Timmermann
There were only 24 available slots for the NIT. 8 were reserved for conference champs that didn't win their conference tournaments.

And the people making the selections said they worked with a lot more subjectivity than the NCAA tournament would.

There's also the problem that Washington wasn't very good.

2007-03-11 20:41:54
111.   Vishal
[36] Does anyone really miss Syracuse in the tournament?

well, i'd have liked to see them in it.

2007-03-11 20:47:25
112.   Vishal
[77] hah, i didn't really need any more reason to hate on stanford, but hey, why not blame them for screwing syracuse? the cardinal didn't deserve to get in.
2007-03-11 20:52:06
113.   Bob Timmermann
But think how much people in upstate New York will be excited about Niagara!
2007-03-11 21:16:49
114.   bhsportsguy
I heard from a close source that UCLA did a lot of "suicides" yesterday.
2007-03-11 21:32:33
115.   Steve
Because both Drexel and Air Force (at least) deserved to get in over both of them. Given that Drexel beat Syracuse and Air Force beat Stanford's JV team. Oh, that wasn't their JV team?
2007-03-11 21:43:29
116.   Bob Timmermann
Air Force was 5-4 against teams that made the NCAA tournament.
They beat Stanford, Texas Tech, George Washington, UNLV, and Long Beach State. They lost to BYU twice, UNLV, and Duke.

Drexel was 1-5 against teams in the NCAA tournament. They beat Villanova and lost to VCU twice, Old Dominion twice, and Penn.

2007-03-11 21:58:44
117.   Vishal
well, it's not like stanford was the only questionable pick. xavier? purdue?

syracuse also finished above villanova in the big east...

2007-03-11 22:02:25
118.   Steve
Drexel beat Vermont, St. Joe's, Villanova, Syracuse, Temple, and Creighton on the road, all places that UCLA players couldn't find on a map, much less go and play there.
2007-03-11 22:12:03
119.   Bob Timmermann
The trip from Drexel to St. Joe's, Temple, or Villanova is daunting.
2007-03-11 22:16:20
120.   Steve
So is the trip to Staples Center from Pauley.
2007-03-11 22:21:46
121.   Xeifrank
Why is the west regional being held in places such as Buffalo NY, Columbus Ohio and Chicago Illinois? vr, Xei
2007-03-11 22:24:41
122.   Bob Timmermann
In the first two rounds, the teams are put into pods of four teams that would potentially meet each others:

e.g., 1, 8, 9, 16 or 4, 5, 12, 13

The highest seed in that group is placed close to home if possible. It's designed to reduce travel for teams and fans in the opening rounds.

2007-03-11 22:26:54
123.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA fared better on the Pauley Pavilion to Galen Center trip.
2007-03-11 22:31:36
124.   Steve
Well, I have digressed in any event. UCLA's marquee non-conference road win may be against Chaminade, but it is Stanford and its triple digit RPI that is the real Enemy Of The People here.
2007-03-11 22:36:50
125.   Bob Timmermann
Chaminade wasn't playing UCLA at home. That game was in Maui. Chaminade is on Oahu.
2007-03-11 22:39:40
126.   Xeifrank
122. if that's the case, they need to drop the West/East etc... disclaimer. Perhaps Disney could sponor the tournament and we could have the four brackets renamed to "Mickey Mouse", "Goofey", "Pluto" and "Donald Duck" brackets. That way if you forget where you parked your car, it's easy to find. Oh wait, I was talking about brackets, not the Disney parking lot.
vr, Xei
2007-03-11 22:42:21
127.   Bob Timmermann
After the first two rounds, then the teams go to a site that is more or less regional.

The NCAA stopped placing teams strictly by geography a while ago.

The last couple years, the regions were just referred to by the name of the host city. E.g., UCLA won the Oakland Regional last year. But this they went back to points on the compass because it's easier to remember.

And yes, I know compasses don't have a "Midwest" direction.

2007-03-11 22:47:19
128.   Vishal
steve, why exactly do you hate ucla? sure, they may not have scheduled a ton of tough road games, but they made it to the NCAA finals last year, and this year they were at the top of the standings in arguably the deepest and most competitive conference. they're legitimately a good team.
2007-03-11 22:54:37
129.   Bob Timmermann
This seems like a good time to go to bed...
2007-03-11 22:57:01
130.   Steve
I don't hate UCLA. Last year they played in the worst bracket of the worst tournament in modern memory, and this year apparently couldn't deign to schedule more than one game in another team's home gym, which it then promptly lost. Nothing personal. They just happen to come up a lot because there are a lot of UCLA fans present and accounted for.
2007-03-11 23:20:52
131.   bhsportsguy
True Non-conference Road Records of #1 Seeds
Florida - 0-1 (loss at Fla. State), 4 other non-conference away games were on neutral sites.
Ohio State - 0-2 (losses at Florida and North Carolina), one other non-conference away game at a neutral site.
North Carolina - 2-0 (wins at Saint Louis and Arizona), 4 other non-conference games at neutral sites.
Kansas - 1-1 (loss at DePaul, win at South Carolina), 3 other non-conference games at neutral sites.

Wisconsin only had one true non-conference road game.

Not defending UCLA's schedule but as folks can see, the number one seeds were not exactly leaving their home arenas much either.

2007-03-11 23:21:59
132.   Uncle Miltie
According to Digger Phelps, Arron Affaro is a great scorer and will lead UCLA to the final four.
2007-03-12 00:37:03
133.   El Lay Dave
132 I wouldn't doubt that Digger pronounced it "Affaro". Anything from Afflalo would be an improvement over the Pac-10 tournament.
2007-03-12 06:03:41
134.   Steve
I wouldn't try to defend UCLA's schedule either.
2007-03-12 06:15:34
135.   mehmattski
128 The only people who would argue that the Pac-10 was the deepest, most competitive conference are people who never saw an ACC or a Big XII game this year. The Pac-10 is the fifth conference, at best, by any measure.

Inflammatory, on a board full of west-coast-bias fans? Sure. But also correct. Visit and then tell me that the Pac-10 is the #1 conference.

2007-03-12 06:30:59
136.   Penarol1916
116. Drexel was 2-5 against tournament teams as they also beat Creighton on the road.

I also believe that I have everyone on the board beat in terms of when I started hating Florida after last year's Sweet 16 game Stupid Corey Brewer hitting a shot from his knees to win the game.

As funny as it is that Syracuse missed the tournament, my favorite exclusion is UConn from the NIT.

2007-03-12 06:46:47
137.   Penarol1916
135. The Big 12? Seriously? They only got 42% of their teams in the Pomeroy top 50 compared to 50% for the Pac-10. Given that I have to watch a lot of Big 12 games whenever I'm with family (parents teach at MU and all of my cousins went to TAMU), I'd have to say that is the worst thing I have ever heard. Outside of the Big 10, I'm not sure that there was a less competitive conference out there for the top teams.
2007-03-12 09:42:27
138.   Vishal
[135] well, i said arguably, and there is a good argument. the ACC's a top conference too, but my point was that 6 of the 10 teams in the pac-10 are in the tournament, and washington wasn't too far from going as well, perhaps had it won an additional game in the conference tourney. at one point late in the season, 5 pac-10 teams were in the top 25. there were only really 2 bad teams in the conference last year, as there were in the ACC. you can argue the ACC is slightly
better, but it's not like the pac-10 is some patsy conference.

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